A week and a half ago our family went out to dinner. It was a little after 5:00pm on a Tuesday evening, it was hot, and we didn’t feel like cooking. I’m pretty sure this was the first time all four of us have gone to a sit down restaurant, ever. Suffice it to say that dining out is not something we do regularly.
As our destination we chose a family restaurant. It has crayons and colouring sheets for the kids, and a children’s menu complete with pictures and novelty pasta shaped like insects. They are currently running a ‘Kids Eat Free’ promotion. We deliberately chose a restaurant where we knew our kids would be welcome and reasonably entertained. We are not fools.
As we waited for our food to arrive a mother and son came into the restaurant. My guess is that the mother was in her 70s and the son in his 40s – these were both adults. They were seated beside our family. Our kids were behaving themselves, Hannah was colouring and Jacob was eating a cracker. Neither of them were even speaking. But the mother took one look at us and said, “We don’t want to sit beside them. We are tired and we want a quiet dinner.”
Dinner disruption number 1
The restaurant was full of families with small kids. None of the kids were out of hand that I saw. They were all colouring or eating their chicken fingers. The person seating the mother and son said, “There are a lot of children here. I’m not sure where I can seat you”, although eventually they were moved to another section. And then moved again because the new section was too sunny. Clearly, this was a case of people who wouldn’t be satisfied.
All the same the whole thing made me angry. I felt singled out in the worst way. But more than that I felt indignant on behalf of my kids. I know that children can be inconvenient, and there are places where it’s better not to bring them. I think it’s safe to say that a family restaurant at 5:30pm on a Tuesday is not one of those places. I also think it’s unfair to assume that my children are going to disturb your ‘quiet’ dinner before you’ve spent 3 minutes in their presence.
Dinner disruption number 2
No one is more uncomfortable than I am if my kids are being loud or crying or engaging in dangerous behaviour in public. I don’t enjoy it at all and I do my best to avoid those situations. But sometimes I just need to go to the bank or buy groceries or enjoy a family dinner out. I really do not need you to add to my anxiety or make my day worse than it already is with your glares, negative comments or downright rudeness. Plus, your hostility is likely to trigger the exact outcome you don’t want because it makes me anxious and then the kids get anxious and pretty soon everyone’s upset.
I am a person, too. My kids are people, too. If you go out into public you may just encounter us. Expect it, learn to deal with it, or stay out of the restaurant running the ‘Kids Eat Free’ promotion.
Thank you for listening. I feel much better now. And please, share your stories of hostile restaurant patrons or grouchy people in the bank line-up, I’d love to know I’m not the only one who encounters this sort of thing.
Guess what? I wrote a post that is featured on Vancouver blog Miss 604 today! If you’re in BC and you’re interested in local history stop on by and check out what I had to say about the streets of Port Moody.
I love people like that! the poor waitress that had to deal with them for dinner would have had about the same experience. Many people seem to come to places where they think it is alright to be rude, just because they are paying to be there! Sorry my waitress rant. I took Brooklyn grocery shopping last week. It was close to nap time -I knew I was pushing it. I let her walk to avoid the fussing and thought I could just go quickly. She started picking things off the shelf so I put her in the buggy. (Brooklyn has discovered she has a voice and loves screaming the last 2 weeks) She screamed at the top of her lung this horrible, seagull getting killed sort of noise. Four people came to see what was happening. It took about 90 seconds of her screaming to realize she wasn't getting out and it was over, but I was left with all these people looking at me!Just thought I'd share with other moms who have had that moment.
Every mom/dad has had that horrible moment. I remember when my daughter was 2 -ish and ran screaming from me in a mall.When I got to her she was surrounded by people glaring at me accusingly. And she had this satisfied little smile on her face. Never was a child picked up and whisked out so fast!So, now when I see a parent with a child doing a spectacular melt-down (and my youngest grandchild was the King of Meltdowns) I just smile in what I hope is interpreted as a sympathetic way. Most of us who have been parents get it.
I am completely fired up on your behalf! I’ve encountered this kind of snobbery too, and I really don’t understand what people expect. If you want an all-adult dining experience, go to one of those places with white tablecloths and candles and linen napkins after 8 pm. I do my best to only go out when Ryan is rested and the wait time is short, and I carry something to keep him entertained should the need arise. Generally though, he’s even more patient in restaurants and stores than at home because he has other things to look at and doesn’t have his favorite toys a mere 10 feet away from his seat. Consequently, I occasionally get compliments from other diners/shoppers regarding how well behaved he is. But you know what? I’m a person, and he’s a person too. Sometimes we’ve got to leave the house, even if we’re having a bad day. I’ll do my best not to subject the general public to a temper tantrum (either his or mine), but, like you said, nothing is going to set me on edge faster than someone making the prejudiced assumption that I’m going to ruin their outing just because my child is with me.
This reminds me of a comic strip I used to have cut out & on the fridge. In it, there’s a line at the bank, a mother holding the hand of a screaming child and a well dressed woman standing in front of her looking disapprovingly at them. After listening to the unsolicited advice of the stranger, the Mother finally says, “Since you’re such an expert with children, what are you doing tonight around 7, my husband & I would like a date night.” The other woman storms off in a huff
This bothers me on so many levels that I can’t even articulate a response.
It’s amazing how many people think kids should either be mini-adults or are not people with the same rights and privileges they expect. I’ve never once demanded an adult eat in the toilet or hide under a blanket or just rudely announce that they are bothering me. Even though I’ve been offended and disgusted more than a few thousand times by adults. And yet people think kids don’t deserve to be treated with the respect they would demand for themselves.
Hi Amber,
I’ve been lucky so far as far as your situation goes and I know my kids are challenging and loud in public places at the best of times. However two good friends of mine took their then 3 yr old sons to a restaurant (not a family restaurant per se, but it had a children’s menu). The kids were playing quietly with their cars (going Vroom vroom, but not loudly) and the waitress, after seating them said they had to move because their kids were being too loud and they had a big party close by. I think my friends moved but were feeling pretty yucky about the whole thing. Then a woman from a table over said something about kids needing to learn manners and respect – just loud enough for them to hear. My friends decided not to stay after that, although they had already ordered, made a comment about it supposedly being a kid-friendly restaurant, and left. Many letters from all friends ensued to the paper and about 15 families in our LLL circle and beyond boycotted the place. Two years later it closed it’s doors. Not because of us, I’m sure. I just don’t think our town could manage to keep it’s kind of place open, but all the same, I was happy.
There was more to the story than that I think. Namely they were most shocked by the rudeness of the waitress, especially when they spoke to her about how they felt and she chose to be rude instead of kind. Anyway, just goes to show how important it is to have a kind, understanding, accommodating server.
it never ceases to amaze me that people forget kids are people too!!!
I have not had that expereince per say ( or rather the people did not say it loud enough for me to hear!) but had deff had some looks. Doug and I usually have a few funny things we say – such as how they are for sale if the person is interested and that they come with at least one toy… HA HA HA
i have however had the oposite where people went out of their way to tell me how well my children behaved ( must have been a quiet moment) which i thought was very kind. I must rememebr that one IF i am ever with out kids at a meal!!!!
Grah. I’ve had lunch with you and Jacob a couple of times; he’s really well behaved (although, he doesn’t seem to enjoy ice cubes in his mouth that much
).
Did I ever tell you about the time I was in BCAA waiting to do some insurance stuff, there was a line, the Poptart was having a screamy day at about 6 weeks old, the manager was trying to help me – even offering her office if I wanted to nurse – and this old bitty behind me said, “Put a cork in her already!”
I am surprised she survived my deathglare.
I feel your pain. My son is usually the one that is acting a fool in the restaurant. No matter how hard I try to distract, redirect, entertain, threaten, etc, he usually does not do well. It is so sad the way people are. I know there are some parents out there that don’t care and let their kids go nuts, but that isn’t me. I am doing my best and people’s looks don’t help. It is sad that there are many times that we end up eating in the car because we just can’t go in.
Don’t take this personally. It’s not about you, it’s not about your children. It’s about these two people who hadn’t realized they had gone to a very family friendly restaurant. By the time they realized it they were too hungry and tired to change restaurants. You don’t know them or their story, maybe they have lots of problems and were just really needing an hour or two to relax and forget about them.
On a funny note, a cousin of mine once had an elderly lady cut ahead of her in line at a coffee shop. The clerk noticed, and went to serve my cousin. My cousin motioned to the old lady and said, “You can serve her first, she has less time left than I do.”
Wow! Well, it would seem evident to me, when choosing a restaurant, that one featuring “kids eat free” would be plum loaded with ummmm… KIDS! Sheesh
I am one of those annoyed people re: children!!
But then again, I know this about myself, so I don’t tend to go to family friendly restaurants
And if I do, I know what I’m in for.
What annoys me, is if parents really truly don’t do ANYTHING when their kid (who is old enough to know better) is shrieking their lungs out. They ignore the child like it’s normal and give us a look like: Deal with it.
I’m sure you two aren’t those types of parents, but I’ve encountered horribly rude parents who haven’t even tried to calm or quiet their child down.
I’ll get my due as a mom, I’m sure.
@Super_E .. hahaha!! “You can serve her first, she has less time left than I do.” Nice.
I can remember my parents getting a compliment from an elderly couple about how well behaved we were. They were so happy to get it!
As for kids in public, I certainly don’t mind. Though my area of expertise is teenagers (I know, people think I’m nuts), I enjoy seeing families and children having fun in public. What I DO mind is when people don’t watch their kids. It makes me nuts. When I see kids running around in a parking lot or towards a road, I get infuriated that their parents aren’t watching them. When I see young children walking around unsupervised in a store, with no adult in sight, I wonder how their parents don’t worry they’ll get abducted. It’s never the kids that bother me, its the failure of their parents to supervise them. Especially in dangerous situations, it looks like neglect to me. (Though I’m sure you don’t neglect your kids!)
It would be nice to think we would never be annoyed by rude people who come to a family restaurant and object to being seated next to a family — that’s asking a lot, though. I think it’s admirable that you only felt annoyed, as opposed to cursing at them or keying their car.
I agree that there are people who are inconsiderate of others or neglectful of their children. It has to be pretty bad before I’m going to venture a judgement, though. I’ve actually been quite pleasantly surprised at how we’ve been received when we took the kids out for dinner when they were small (which was hardly ever, because it just didn’t seem to be a very relaxing prospect to me). I’m sorry your first experience was crummy.
I guess it’s true — some people won’t be satisfied no matter what, and will find the negative in every situation. I always sort of think that I’m just glad we’re us and not them. It’s more fun, don’t you think?
“I NEVER let my baby cry” That was the bland condescending statement that a woman layed on me in a grocery store line up. I was near tears as it was that day because my baby was inconsolable and over stimulated to the extreme!
I was already suffering with postpardum depression because of a severe sleep deprivation and a “high-needs” baby. I just wanted to get out of the house for a minute, and I was hoping the grocery store would be something sane and orderly in my choatic and haphazard existance…. I was wrong, it was a place for my already frail beleif in my new parenting skills were shattered!!!!
Obviously I have’t recovered from it. 12 years later.
Whenever I see a mom on her last thread with a crying baby in a public place, I give her a pleasant smile and a wink… if she can hear me I try to tell her I remember days like that, and hope that makes her feel better about herself.
I would have been really irritated too. Those rude people probably went on to have a terrible dinner and then a grumpy evening, but they didn’t need to share any of that attitude with you. Especially at a place with a “kids eat free” event!
Pffft I’d totally ask to be moved too – your kids look like they’d be a heap of trouble.
This blows me away, seriously. Hello – go to a more grownup restaurant then, you doorknobs!! Urgh.
Congrats on the post! BTW, I’m so enjoying your posts over here . . . I know I say that every time I stop by but your writing is so good.
Anyway, we’ve experienced a variety of responses to our Annabelle (age 2). On some occasions when we fear she’s behaving “badly,” folks will comment on how adorable and well behaved she is . . . and then there are those folks who say nothing but whose eyes and mouths give away their regard for our child (not so good). I do feel defensive but I try to remind myself that without my little sweety in my life, I might not “remember” or appreciate how wonderful children are . . . many of our friends who do not yet have children have pretty amazing expectations of how children ought to behave (an evil part of me can’t wait to see what and whether this will change after they have kids,
).
Anyway, yes I totally agree: our children have rights and thank goodness many children have parents who will advocate and speak up for them (especially when their own word choice is limited by age, etc.).
Ahhh! Another long comment,
I agree with super e above. They knew your kids are little people, who cannot and should not be expected to behave like adults: that’s why they asked to be moved, nothing personal! And, frankly, they gave you a chance to enjoy your family dinner without worrying whether your kids were bothering adults seated the next table down! Having said this, I like a mother all ready to difend her children’s rights:)!
Two words – fuck em. Your kids weren’t doing anything wrong. These were fussy, bitter, unhappy people. Shame for them.
I wrote about having to leave a restaurant not too long ago – http://bit.ly/xGpWM wonder what those people would have thought of my family?
When my son was just a couple of weeks old, I was in a department store shopping for nursing bras. My son, in his stroller, started making a few mewling sounds in his sleep, as newborns do. Standing *thisclose* to him, I kept looking at bras while waiting to see if he was going to stay asleep or wake up & want to nurse. He’d been making noise for less than 30 seconds (seriously) when a woman, another shopper, came over to me and started chastising me for not picking him up immediately. I told her he was still asleep and likely to stay that way. She then demanded that I let HER pick him up because SHE would know how to deal with a baby (strongly implying that I, his mother, who had been with him every f&cking second since he’d been born, did not). I asked her if she had kids. Of course she didn’t…
The children in restaurants issue is (as far as I’ve experienced) a peculiarly North American one. Last summer I was in the south of France, eating in restaurants every night. I’d been concerned about bringing my then 2 month old to some of those places, but needn’t have worried. There were children (especially babies & toddlers) everywhere, even the Michelin 2 star restaurant we went to. More often than not, the servers offered to hold the baby while I enjoyed my dinner. In France, children are recognized as people and treated as such. They are a part of life, as is good food. Parents are not relegated to the Chuck E Cheese equivalent for the sin of having reproduced. Sigh.
I recently saw a woman looking painfully embarrassed as her kid was having a meltdown. I just smiled at her and said, “hey, mine do that too”.
Depending on my mood, I can be quite flippant; I may have turned to them and said, “fine with me, I’ve had people better than you not want to sit by me”
That woman was so illogical in so many ways, I cannot even begin to number them. If she wanted a quiet dinner, she should have stayed home.
I remember once with Jeffrey was around 2, he pulled such a tantrum (very rare) in a store that everyone was staring. I was trying desperately to quiet him down and started making my way out when I saw it wasn’t going to work. I overheard one of the associates from the store tell her colleague, “she doesn’t know how to handle her kid”. Kids get tired, they sometimes get out of hand, but at that moment, I felt a little like I didn’t know what I was doing. Then I snapped out of it and realized that she was in the wrong, not me.
I haven’t had any bad experiences with people saying something or glaring, but I can definitely relate with the uncomfortable feeling. My two-year-old throws the loudest, nastiest tantrums I’ve ever seen. She usually goes into one right when we’re shopping in a quiet place like Earth Fare or Whole Foods, but we can’t just up and leave. We have to drive for an hour to get to those places, so we hardly ever go and there are certain things we have to buy! I feel like there are people looking at me thinking I’m not being patient enough with my daughter, and yet others who think I ought to smack her (which I am not going to do). I know her tantrums aren’t any fun to witness, but we still have to go out in public sometimes!
Today while I was pumping gas my children screamed their little faces off. It was hot. My windows were down. I am sure everyone in a 3 block radius of the gas station heard them. It was horrible. But, I didn’t stop pumping my gas. Thank goodness for pay at the pump though….as soon as the gas was done, I hopped in my car and sped off! Some times kids can be rangy…sometimes adults can be too…parking lots at Christmas time comes to mind!
@melodie That’s ridiculous that you had to move because of a large party. Large parties are louder than most kids.
I’ve worked in a restaurant for almost 5 years and we get a few kids each night. Most of the time they’re no trouble. It bothers me when I see families eating out at 10pm since their kids are obviously tired.
We rarely eat out and when do we usually do it without the kids, but we were surprised how good they were the last time we went out.
Ps. Congrats on your guest post
Inexcusable.
It really doesn’t matter how anyone feels about sitting next to children, being near children, having a baby on an airplane, etc. They don’t get to decide that. As you’ve said, children happen to be people, too, and they get to take up space in this world just like everybody else…
My blood pressure went up just reading your post–you must have been so angry!
I feel your pain! When my now-7-year-old son was 3, I was shopping with him in a lovely accessories shop in Market Square in Saint John, NB, 20 minutes from my hometown of Quispamsis. I was browsing the umbrellas and purses. My son was sitting quietly looking at some bags on the bottom shelf. He was being sooo good, it was just a wonderful outing – which I sorely needed.
Now, the problem was that he was sitting in the middle of an aisle. As we were browsing, an employee of the shop came back from buying lunch, and was holding a tray. She stopped about 4 feet from my son and stood there. She looked at him, then she looked at me. Then she looked back at him. <> I don’t know if I was waiting for her to say, “excuse me,” but I know she had me flustered and eventually I found my wits and shooed him out of her way.
We left the store, but then I remembered what a nice day we’d been having, and felt again how much I NEEDED that nice day, and (here’s where mama bear starts to bare her teeth) how wronged I felt for my son, who was doing nothing wrong and had not been afforded the simple courtesy given to adults: that simple “excuse me”.
Sooo, I took my son’s hand and marched into the store and up to the counter, where the woman was chatting with a coworker. If the store hadn’t been empty, I might not have proceeded. But it was, and so I told this stately, well-groomed shopkeeper (straight from Pretty Woman’s “before” shopping trip) that my son was a person, too, and all she had to do was to say “Excuse me” to him and he would move. Flushed, indignant, and just plain mad, I told her that she was very rude to just stand there, expecting us to move out of her way simply because she was glaring at us. Who taught her such manners? My son may be small, I said, but he knows to move aside if someone says “excuse me” or even “please move”. I then turned and whirled out of the store, never to return again. Which is saying something, because they have REALLY nice purses and umbrellas.