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	<title>Comments on: Making Hospital Birth Better</title>
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	<description>Keeping it real in the suburbs</description>
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		<title>By: cypress sun</title>
		<link>http://www.strocel.com/making-hospital-birth-better/#comment-46197</link>
		<dc:creator>cypress sun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.strocel.com/?p=7796#comment-46197</guid>
		<description>amber ~ you have initiated the most thought provoking conversation i have ever encountered about the birth experience.  

as someone who prepared for a homebirth, read the 20+ books to support it, and hired THE midwife, i was completely devastated when the birth of my son became one of the most horrible hospital experiences imaginable.  

throughout my pregnancy, i indignantly believed, and was coached by my midwife to believe, that i was superior in my choices and actions.  that the medical community was my enemy.  that submitting to anything they had to offer would indicate failure on my part, and result in a baby (and mother) with multiple problems.

in turn, my experience taught me to respect all mothers, all choices, all experiences.  unfortunately, however, i still haven&#039;t been able to wholeheartedly believe that i haven&#039;t failed my son in some way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>amber ~ you have initiated the most thought provoking conversation i have ever encountered about the birth experience.  </p>
<p>as someone who prepared for a homebirth, read the 20+ books to support it, and hired THE midwife, i was completely devastated when the birth of my son became one of the most horrible hospital experiences imaginable.  </p>
<p>throughout my pregnancy, i indignantly believed, and was coached by my midwife to believe, that i was superior in my choices and actions.  that the medical community was my enemy.  that submitting to anything they had to offer would indicate failure on my part, and result in a baby (and mother) with multiple problems.</p>
<p>in turn, my experience taught me to respect all mothers, all choices, all experiences.  unfortunately, however, i still haven&#8217;t been able to wholeheartedly believe that i haven&#8217;t failed my son in some way.</p>
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		<title>By: Friday Favorites &#171; Musings of a Marfan Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.strocel.com/making-hospital-birth-better/#comment-46162</link>
		<dc:creator>Friday Favorites &#171; Musings of a Marfan Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.strocel.com/?p=7796#comment-46162</guid>
		<description>[...] just love Amber Strocel&#8217;s blog! Her posts are always reasoned and well-written. In Making Hospital Birth Better, Amber examines the polarization of birth options and if there are ways to make hospital births [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] just love Amber Strocel&#8217;s blog! Her posts are always reasoned and well-written. In Making Hospital Birth Better, Amber examines the polarization of birth options and if there are ways to make hospital births [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Delia</title>
		<link>http://www.strocel.com/making-hospital-birth-better/#comment-46137</link>
		<dc:creator>Delia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.strocel.com/?p=7796#comment-46137</guid>
		<description>This is an incredibly thought-provoking post and discussion.  Women as health consumers should be able to have a safe birth and a satisfying experience, both at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an incredibly thought-provoking post and discussion.  Women as health consumers should be able to have a safe birth and a satisfying experience, both at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: BluebirdMama aka @childbearing</title>
		<link>http://www.strocel.com/making-hospital-birth-better/#comment-46103</link>
		<dc:creator>BluebirdMama aka @childbearing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.strocel.com/?p=7796#comment-46103</guid>
		<description>I keep thinking about this post and about the comments here.

I think the post addressed two issues: 1) how to make a birth in which medical intervention IS necessary a more respectful experience and 2) why is there a polarization in the birth community and what about the middle ground.

I addressed the first in my prior comment. But the second has been nagging at me, especially in light of all the comments. 

I am very pro homebirth, pro birth centres and pro midwifery for a variety of reasons but I do understand that medical intervention is occasionally necessary and useful. Both my children were born at home but with my first I had a retained placenta, transfer to hospital for D&amp;C, under general for 4 hours away from my baby and the first day of his life spent feverish, drugged up and denied food or drink in recovery. It was a shitty experience but clearly it is much better than the alternative which is that like you had this happened in 1805, my husband would have been out looking for a wet nurse for a motherless baby. I am grateful that medical intervention is around, precisely for these kinds of situations.

BUT&gt; I think the polarization comes from the fact that the actual middle ground consists of countless women who are subjected to UNNECCESSARY medical intervention. We have the few who have natural, uncomplicated births, the few who have real emergent situations who need medical interventions and then this huge gray area in the middle. The women in the middle who are rightly outraged about these unnecessary interventions are rejecting the system as whole because it often feels like it is impossible to work for change within the system. Furthermore, the women in the middle become pitted against each other because it is often difficult to say for sure if a particular set of interventions was actually necessary. One woman might believe that her caesarean birth saved her baby while another perspective might say that avoiding an induction, an epidural, an IV and electronic fetal monitoring might have saved her baby (and the mom the caesarean). We do know that a lot of the interventions are not necessary or useful and yet, it seems almost impossible to reduce these. Some caesarean births are necessary but even the medical community agrees they are not all necessary. I definitely understand the feeling of women who have endured terrible loss that they would endure any medical intervention if it would give them back their baby…but I also understand the women who keep being told at least their baby is healthy when they feel violated and abused and traumatised by what happened in L&amp;D.

Honestly, I think we all need to come together as ONE to demand better maternity care as consumers (yes, even in Canada). We need to stop fighting amongst ourselves about what is the loftier goal - a healthy baby or a healthy baby AND a healthy mom - or nothing will ever change. This wouldn’t even be an issue if the medical establishment AS A WHOLE were more respectful and more measured in the care they give.
.-= BluebirdMama aka @childbearing´s last post ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Bluebirdmamacom/~3/qVjTwQdBSKM/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Trick of the Light&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep thinking about this post and about the comments here.</p>
<p>I think the post addressed two issues: 1) how to make a birth in which medical intervention IS necessary a more respectful experience and 2) why is there a polarization in the birth community and what about the middle ground.</p>
<p>I addressed the first in my prior comment. But the second has been nagging at me, especially in light of all the comments. </p>
<p>I am very pro homebirth, pro birth centres and pro midwifery for a variety of reasons but I do understand that medical intervention is occasionally necessary and useful. Both my children were born at home but with my first I had a retained placenta, transfer to hospital for D&amp;C, under general for 4 hours away from my baby and the first day of his life spent feverish, drugged up and denied food or drink in recovery. It was a shitty experience but clearly it is much better than the alternative which is that like you had this happened in 1805, my husband would have been out looking for a wet nurse for a motherless baby. I am grateful that medical intervention is around, precisely for these kinds of situations.</p>
<p>BUT&gt; I think the polarization comes from the fact that the actual middle ground consists of countless women who are subjected to UNNECCESSARY medical intervention. We have the few who have natural, uncomplicated births, the few who have real emergent situations who need medical interventions and then this huge gray area in the middle. The women in the middle who are rightly outraged about these unnecessary interventions are rejecting the system as whole because it often feels like it is impossible to work for change within the system. Furthermore, the women in the middle become pitted against each other because it is often difficult to say for sure if a particular set of interventions was actually necessary. One woman might believe that her caesarean birth saved her baby while another perspective might say that avoiding an induction, an epidural, an IV and electronic fetal monitoring might have saved her baby (and the mom the caesarean). We do know that a lot of the interventions are not necessary or useful and yet, it seems almost impossible to reduce these. Some caesarean births are necessary but even the medical community agrees they are not all necessary. I definitely understand the feeling of women who have endured terrible loss that they would endure any medical intervention if it would give them back their baby…but I also understand the women who keep being told at least their baby is healthy when they feel violated and abused and traumatised by what happened in L&amp;D.</p>
<p>Honestly, I think we all need to come together as ONE to demand better maternity care as consumers (yes, even in Canada). We need to stop fighting amongst ourselves about what is the loftier goal &#8211; a healthy baby or a healthy baby AND a healthy mom &#8211; or nothing will ever change. This wouldn’t even be an issue if the medical establishment AS A WHOLE were more respectful and more measured in the care they give.<br />
.-= BluebirdMama aka @childbearing´s last post ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Bluebirdmamacom/~3/qVjTwQdBSKM/" rel="nofollow">Trick of the Light</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.strocel.com/making-hospital-birth-better/#comment-46100</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.strocel.com/?p=7796#comment-46100</guid>
		<description>I should note--it&#039;s only the title of the post that bugged me. The content of your post is balanced and thought-provoking. Good discussion, Amber.
.-= Mary Lynn´s last post ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://ridinginahandbasket.blogspot.com/2010/02/do-not-adjust-your-set.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Do not adjust your set...&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should note&#8211;it&#8217;s only the title of the post that bugged me. The content of your post is balanced and thought-provoking. Good discussion, Amber.<br />
.-= Mary Lynn´s last post ..<a href="http://ridinginahandbasket.blogspot.com/2010/02/do-not-adjust-your-set.html" rel="nofollow">Do not adjust your set&#8230;</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Milehimama</title>
		<link>http://www.strocel.com/making-hospital-birth-better/#comment-46099</link>
		<dc:creator>Milehimama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.strocel.com/?p=7796#comment-46099</guid>
		<description>I have had 8 hospital births.  It really helps to be friendly, but self confident.  Ask the staff questions (don&#039;t question in a rude or aggressive way, but ask).  Simply saying &quot;Why do you recommend that?&quot; or &quot;What is the benefit?&quot; (instead of, &quot;WHAT?  WHY????) makes a huge difference.  The respect factor.

And, don&#039;t take it personally.  With my 2nd birth my LD Nurse was a crusty old lady who was sooo condescending.  But I&#039;m not going to let her steal the joy of that birth forever.  Just let it go.  Easier said than done, sometimes.  

Scripture tells us that women ponder things in their hearts - true.  But, also, YOU choose what can enter your heart.  Just say no, as it were.

Although with my last birth, as soon as the LD nurse found out it was #8 she said &quot;You tell me what to do and what you need!&quot; LOL.

I had a postnatal home visit, once.  It was not optional and I HATED it, even though it was touted as a wonderful benefit of XYZ healthplan.  I didn&#039;t want it. I think giving women choices, and not judging those choices, is the key to having a birth that respects mama and baby.
.-= Milehimama´s last post ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.milehimama.com/2010/02/16/meat-substitutes-works-for-me-wednesday/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Meat Substitutes: Works for Me Wednesday&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had 8 hospital births.  It really helps to be friendly, but self confident.  Ask the staff questions (don&#8217;t question in a rude or aggressive way, but ask).  Simply saying &#8220;Why do you recommend that?&#8221; or &#8220;What is the benefit?&#8221; (instead of, &#8220;WHAT?  WHY????) makes a huge difference.  The respect factor.</p>
<p>And, don&#8217;t take it personally.  With my 2nd birth my LD Nurse was a crusty old lady who was sooo condescending.  But I&#8217;m not going to let her steal the joy of that birth forever.  Just let it go.  Easier said than done, sometimes.  </p>
<p>Scripture tells us that women ponder things in their hearts &#8211; true.  But, also, YOU choose what can enter your heart.  Just say no, as it were.</p>
<p>Although with my last birth, as soon as the LD nurse found out it was #8 she said &#8220;You tell me what to do and what you need!&#8221; LOL.</p>
<p>I had a postnatal home visit, once.  It was not optional and I HATED it, even though it was touted as a wonderful benefit of XYZ healthplan.  I didn&#8217;t want it. I think giving women choices, and not judging those choices, is the key to having a birth that respects mama and baby.<br />
.-= Milehimama´s last post ..<a href="http://www.milehimama.com/2010/02/16/meat-substitutes-works-for-me-wednesday/" rel="nofollow">Meat Substitutes: Works for Me Wednesday</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.strocel.com/making-hospital-birth-better/#comment-46098</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.strocel.com/?p=7796#comment-46098</guid>
		<description>So I read your post earlier today and almost commented, then changed my mind because, well, something was niggling away at me and I wanted to figure it out in my own head before I posted.

Here&#039;s the thing...I think the title of the post should be &quot;Making Birth Better&quot;. I think putting the &quot;Hospital&quot; in there right off the bat signifies that a hospital birth is (of course) the lesser option and that other kinds of births don&#039;t need to be made better--they already are better.

I actually know people who&#039;ve had bad experiences with midwives, just as I know people who&#039;ve had great experiences with midwives. And doctors?  I&#039;ve heard of both good and bad experiences there, too.  

In almost all of the bad cases (midwives and doctors) the issue seemed to be mainly poor communication and not paying attention to the woman who is pregnant.

I was fortunate to have two wonderful epidural-free hospital births. I think some of that was due to luck--I happened to give birth on days when the maternity ward was not particularly busy and I had no real complications to deal with. Part of my good fortune was due to the fact that I felt well-informed about what the birthing process would be, I had a husband who would advocate for me if I needed anything, and I was realistic about the fact that my birth plan might change once things got rolling.  I found the nurses and doctors treated me with respect, and both births really were positive experiences.
.-= Mary Lynn´s last post ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://ridinginahandbasket.blogspot.com/2010/02/do-not-adjust-your-set.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Do not adjust your set...&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I read your post earlier today and almost commented, then changed my mind because, well, something was niggling away at me and I wanted to figure it out in my own head before I posted.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the thing&#8230;I think the title of the post should be &#8220;Making Birth Better&#8221;. I think putting the &#8220;Hospital&#8221; in there right off the bat signifies that a hospital birth is (of course) the lesser option and that other kinds of births don&#8217;t need to be made better&#8211;they already are better.</p>
<p>I actually know people who&#8217;ve had bad experiences with midwives, just as I know people who&#8217;ve had great experiences with midwives. And doctors?  I&#8217;ve heard of both good and bad experiences there, too.  </p>
<p>In almost all of the bad cases (midwives and doctors) the issue seemed to be mainly poor communication and not paying attention to the woman who is pregnant.</p>
<p>I was fortunate to have two wonderful epidural-free hospital births. I think some of that was due to luck&#8211;I happened to give birth on days when the maternity ward was not particularly busy and I had no real complications to deal with. Part of my good fortune was due to the fact that I felt well-informed about what the birthing process would be, I had a husband who would advocate for me if I needed anything, and I was realistic about the fact that my birth plan might change once things got rolling.  I found the nurses and doctors treated me with respect, and both births really were positive experiences.<br />
.-= Mary Lynn´s last post ..<a href="http://ridinginahandbasket.blogspot.com/2010/02/do-not-adjust-your-set.html" rel="nofollow">Do not adjust your set&#8230;</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Tepary</title>
		<link>http://www.strocel.com/making-hospital-birth-better/#comment-46095</link>
		<dc:creator>Tepary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.strocel.com/?p=7796#comment-46095</guid>
		<description>FeministBreeder,

 Perhaps you didn&#039;t read the same comments I did.  The comments I read welcomed whatever choice a family desired, balance and patient advocacy.  Some commenters spoke from a place of immense loss and their voices should not be ignored which I&#039;m afraid you did. 

Great post Amber. 
I only hoped that my child and I survive. My pregnancy was high risk from the get go and I had weekly or biweekly appointments from 7 weeks on. I was fortunate enough to have a fabulous perinatologist and L&amp; D nurse. They read our birth plan and respected it. While pregnancy was a roller coaster because of my medical condition, the L&amp;D was empowering. It helped that my expectations of a &#039;birth experience&#039; were low, but being an advocate for myself, having a partner that would advocate also, having a doctor that would listen and respond even if he disagreed all helped immensely. I agree, balance isn&#039;t always present and many of us need support in being advocates for our own health care in all fields and not only maternity. The polarization of pregnancy and labor approaches does not aid women, children or family. Both sides need to take a step toward the middle. I found a doctor and a hospital who respected my choices. I had friends who themselves had the option of birth centers or home births who didn&#039;t judge our route as any less valid than theirs. I did come in contact with those who didn&#039;t, who devalued my route to parenthood as less than optimum.  I think them rather short sighted. I rather wish efforts were focused on developing us as advocates within whatever environment we have available AND for post natal care. Home visits post delivery from home nurses and doulas.
.-= Tepary´s last post ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://growfamilygrow.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/cluck-cluck-cliche/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Cluck, cluck, cliche&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FeministBreeder,</p>
<p> Perhaps you didn&#8217;t read the same comments I did.  The comments I read welcomed whatever choice a family desired, balance and patient advocacy.  Some commenters spoke from a place of immense loss and their voices should not be ignored which I&#8217;m afraid you did. </p>
<p>Great post Amber.<br />
I only hoped that my child and I survive. My pregnancy was high risk from the get go and I had weekly or biweekly appointments from 7 weeks on. I was fortunate enough to have a fabulous perinatologist and L&amp; D nurse. They read our birth plan and respected it. While pregnancy was a roller coaster because of my medical condition, the L&amp;D was empowering. It helped that my expectations of a &#8216;birth experience&#8217; were low, but being an advocate for myself, having a partner that would advocate also, having a doctor that would listen and respond even if he disagreed all helped immensely. I agree, balance isn&#8217;t always present and many of us need support in being advocates for our own health care in all fields and not only maternity. The polarization of pregnancy and labor approaches does not aid women, children or family. Both sides need to take a step toward the middle. I found a doctor and a hospital who respected my choices. I had friends who themselves had the option of birth centers or home births who didn&#8217;t judge our route as any less valid than theirs. I did come in contact with those who didn&#8217;t, who devalued my route to parenthood as less than optimum.  I think them rather short sighted. I rather wish efforts were focused on developing us as advocates within whatever environment we have available AND for post natal care. Home visits post delivery from home nurses and doulas.<br />
.-= Tepary´s last post ..<a href="http://growfamilygrow.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/cluck-cluck-cliche/" rel="nofollow">Cluck, cluck, cliche</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Tammy</title>
		<link>http://www.strocel.com/making-hospital-birth-better/#comment-55999</link>
		<dc:creator>Tammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.strocel.com/?p=7796#comment-55999</guid>
		<description>I agree with you too...I think I am one of the ones in between...I think there is WAY too much intervention in birthing and it often causes a lot more problems than there should be...but I am not opposed to intervention that is absolutely necessary either...with my second child I stood my ground and didn&#039;t opt for much interventions and the birth was great...my first was the opposite and it was very chaotic in every way...especially emotionally... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you too&#8230;I think I am one of the ones in between&#8230;I think there is WAY too much intervention in birthing and it often causes a lot more problems than there should be&#8230;but I am not opposed to intervention that is absolutely necessary either&#8230;with my second child I stood my ground and didn&#039;t opt for much interventions and the birth was great&#8230;my first was the opposite and it was very chaotic in every way&#8230;especially emotionally&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lady M</title>
		<link>http://www.strocel.com/making-hospital-birth-better/#comment-46072</link>
		<dc:creator>Lady M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.strocel.com/?p=7796#comment-46072</guid>
		<description>Thoughtful post.  I respect the wishes of women who wish to give birth without medical intervention, and I&#039;m glad to see your balanced take on it.  Too many times, I see doctors described as practically evil in &quot;natural only!&quot; articles, forgetting that it was perfectly natural and traditional for women to die in childbirth along with their babies.  Like everything, there&#039;s a balance to find.
.-= Lady M´s last post ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.empress-m.com/2010/02/watching-gold.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Watching Gold&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thoughtful post.  I respect the wishes of women who wish to give birth without medical intervention, and I&#8217;m glad to see your balanced take on it.  Too many times, I see doctors described as practically evil in &#8220;natural only!&#8221; articles, forgetting that it was perfectly natural and traditional for women to die in childbirth along with their babies.  Like everything, there&#8217;s a balance to find.<br />
.-= Lady M´s last post ..<a href="http://www.empress-m.com/2010/02/watching-gold.html" rel="nofollow">Watching Gold</a> =-.</p>
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